Jay: 0:01

Hi, welcome to building a business that lasts. My name is Jay and I'm your host on a quest towards stories, tips, and ideas that will help you grow a business without being stressed out, worn out, and ready to quit. Each week I'll interview other business owners who have successfully grown businesses of all types for many years. It's my hope that these conversations will help you build a business that lasts. On this episode I interviewed Jason Hsiao. Jason is the Co founder and chief video officer of Animoto and award winning online video maker that makes it easy for anyone to create professional quality videos anywhere, regardless of their technical skills and if they've ever created a video before. This is extremely important in a world where video has had such a huge impact. Now both personally and professionally, and one of the things that really stands out and the reason that Jason is on the show because that their company has been around since 2007, so they have lasted the test of time where many software as a service online applications have not. And if you're going to create something online, you want to know that product still exists. So I can't wait to share with you this interview with Jason and his team at Animoto has lasted the test of time. Hey Jason, thanks for being on the show.

Jason: 1:19

Thanks for having me. It's a real privilege.

Speaker 2: 1:20

So one thing that's kind of a cool little anecdote before we get started, about your software animoto. Is that the right way to say it? Yeah. Okay. I thought so. So what's, what's kind of interesting about this is when I knew I was going to have you on the show, I went back to the application. I've used it several times before and I logged into my account and I scrolled back through and the oldest video I have in there is from 2013 and it's a video that I made for my wife when we had been together for 10 years. We've been married for 15 years now. So. And that was actually not even 10 year anniversary. It was like, you know, back when we did like dating anniversaries and now we're old enough we don't do that anymore, but um, it was just funny because that was quite awhile ago. And, and with a software as a service, I think one of the big problems is you sign up for an account somewhere, you start to like a tool or a product and then they go out of business or disappear or get bought up and gobbled up and that's not happened for you guys. And that's one of the big things I'm excited to talk about today. So, and have you kind of hear from you on. So one of the things I'd like to start with is when you first had the idea and started the company, what kind of gave you the, the catalyst or the spark to say, hey, we're going to actually do this thing.

Speaker 3: 2:28

Oh, interesting parallels. One of the first videos I made with Animoto, this was actually before we actually released animoto. It was kind of when it was still in the works. I made a video to propose to my now wife. We were in Sun Valley on this like beautiful horse drawn sleigh ride under the star filled sky and unbenounced to her. I had my backpack with my laptop on me, which sounds totally unromantic, but you know, what she didn't know as I was going to proposing to her and the backstory to that backstory, this getting kind of like inception, like as we had been working on this idea of my cofounders and I on trying to figure out how to do this rendering video rendering technology in the cloud. Um, my, my colleague and I both had careers in television here in New York City and it was actually pretty exciting times for both of us because we both, we actually went to high school and college together. That's a whole nother story. But we always were making videos. I love videos, absolutely believed in the magic of video. And so when we were working in TV, while that was really exciting, we just saw how fast everything was, was changing around us, how fast, you know, everything on the Internet was changing how fast, you know, these, these mobile devices. And, and keep in mind, this is back before the iphone, how these things are getting smaller and smaller and can now actually like full up and fit in your pocket, which is kind of crazy and it just seemed inevitable that these devices and you could carry around with you and have like Internet connection and maybe even like a, like a, a camera or video camera and it just seem inevitable that video would just be a big part of all us and also the rise and like cloud computing, which at that time no one even knew what cloud computing was a potential. And so we were just, as much as we were loving working in television and I was like about to move in La. I had an agent, I was pitching and selling shows. It seemed like, like why wouldn't I, you know, take a jump on all that opportunity. But I just could, we just could not stop thinking about the possibilities of, you know, video in the cloud and really empowering, giving everyone that magic of video. So we, it was literally like nights and weekends that we tried to prove out this technology if we could actually render video in the cloud. And um, you know, I guess back to that proposal story, it was that moment where I, I, you know, on a, on a little Brit, you know, a snow covered bridge over the creek and the ballet. I take out my laptop, which seems like the most unromantic thing, but I play this video and I'll spare you all the grocery stuff. But just to see her and Jen, my wife, she's a tough cookie. She doesn't really cry at most things, but just to see her bawling and um, and, and I accept, I assume I was at a yes when I asked her to marry me, but just that moment and the power of video and I was like, if I could convince her and convinced me and convinced, you know, my, my co founder that this technology really works in delivering that magic. If I could make that moment happen for everyone around the world, that would be amazing. So that was another moment where we're all like, let's quit our jobs, let's make this happen. Um, and that was all that kind of motivation behind it.

Speaker 2: 5:39

Wow. Well, you can't make that story up. I mean it was so good. It's like a perfect kind of spark to kick something off like this and you know, it's amazing because you guys have been around since 2007. Is that right?

Speaker 3: 5:51

Yeah, that was when we launched animoto.com. But before that there was probably a good year and a half of actual work and maybe like another year before that, just talking about it. So it's probably been a dozen years or so.

Speaker 2: 6:04

Well, and you know, it's kind of a prime. You really hit the market perfectly from a timing standpoint I think too, because I mean video has just become so huge over the last few years and finding tools to make that easy for people to. We've got all these random photos that we've taken. We've got all these random videos that we take in, but how do we turn them into something that looks really good? Um, and that's really what your tool does.

Speaker 3: 6:27

Yeah. And certainly a lot. Even in the 10 years that we've been, you know, I think it's 11 years that we've been out with are released with our toilet. So much, so much has changed. I remember when we first got started, there was still like blockbuster, you know, things were all about like dvds. In fact, I remember in the early days a lot of people were like, uh, first of all, no one charges anything on the Internet. You guys are crazy to be, you know, trying to charge money to look at Google, look at Yahoo. Everything is about, you know, ad driven businesses. And we were just like, yeah, but I don't know, these videos, they just don't seem like it should have like diaper ads all over there. I mean, if you're trying to do a family video and then um, you know, and that was like my space, it was like the hot thing and, and everyone's like, well maybe if you're going to sell anything, sell dvds. And everyone's just like, yeah, but does, that, seems like dvds might be going away. So it was just like everything, every, every few years everything has changed. So yeah, the fact that we can still be here and growing, you know, it doesn't years later as it's actually pretty amazing.

Speaker 2: 7:26

So you hit on a couple of things there that I think are important and I think anybody encounters if they're going to start something new and that is a objection from others and fear. Um, and so how did you and your partners kind of push through that and go, no, no, we really believe in this idea in and yes, it's a little scary to quit our jobs and to, you know, focus on this thing over here. But how did you kind of overcome that fear and overcome those objections?

Speaker 3: 7:52

That's a great question. I mean, there's always a, there's always a certain level of anxiety and fear and unknown, but that's also part of the fun of it. And I think for folks that are risk adverse or who are freaked out about the unknown, you know, those people tend not to be the ones that start businesses, but for me that those were all the most exciting time that we didn't know what exactly was going to happen. You know, we were, I think what really got us through those early days was for good or bad and I can talk about that. And it's like we were upset. We were just kind of like technology nerds. We just were like, wow, this cloud computing thing, uh, we just, we literally said we just want to lock ourselves in a room for a year and build amazing technology. And we had all these patents and everything was like super exciting from an innovation standpoint. And so we just completely nerded out. And we actually didn't even know who was going to use animoto in those early days. And so the fact that we had so many people in those early days using animoto felt amazing. Later on we kind of realized it was actually a bit of a curse to have a little bit of everyone using you and not really having a clear focus. But um, yeah, what really got us through those early days. We just loved the product. We love the technology. And from there I don't think that's probably dissimilar to a lot of people who start a company is being in love with a certain idea from a kind of a, especially if I'm kind of more of a product or technology standpoint. But from there it was a long journey about how to actually grow into being truly, you know, customer and market centric and all that stuff along the way.

Speaker 2: 9:22

And so when you guys started out where you sell, funded or invest investor backed,

Speaker 3: 9:28

I'm a little of both. Uh, so we, you know, we have four co founders. Uh, we, we kind of bootstrapped our first year. We kind of each put in a chunk of money just to basically pay ourselves back and make sure that we're all responsibly able to pay our rent and feed ourselves. Um, so we kind of got ourselves started that way. We, uh, we raised a bit of my first band, we got a bunch of checks from family and friends basically just to get us through that first year. And the other thing, I think we actually got as many things as we go wrong along the way. One thing we got right is we actually started with that, that business model. Um, and you know, you're asking a lot of those naysayers that say, well, no, you know, people don't charge for stuff. I'm kind of like, well, we just, we had to really believe that we could build something of value with that. We felt people would genuinely be interested in paying for it. That value is there. And so we also learned, you know, I also came from that first.com boom and bust in the late nineties where I saw firsthand how, you know, product and technology is not the, uh, you know, the, the only car that you can play it. To build a business, you really need to have natural business model. So the nice thing is we started with an actual business model, so I'm from day one, we're already making money, so that certainly helped, uh, you know, kind of give us a bit of a runway for those first few years. So kind of a combination of a few things. But um, we were very disciplined about making sure that we're not going crazy with expenses. We pretty much to this day, you know, 12 years later we, we pretty much spend what we make and uh, you know, we, we try to be aggressive but fiscally responsible and that's kind of how we run things.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Yeah, I think that's where you see a lot of people screw up, not just in software as a service companies, but in any company is just spending money they don't have. I mean, I think that high debt, high risk, it is always risky when you start a business or run a business. But I think that there are ways to manage that risk. I think the people that have learned to be successful in the longterm, like, like you guys are usually the ones that have gone, hey, we want to buy those things, we want to make that investment. We're not quite there yet. We're going to do that in six months or whatever. You know, when you make decisions about what has to happen now. And I think sometimes those constraints, especially in design and development, those constraints are the things that actually sometimes make things better because you have to be forced to work on the things that are the most important.

Speaker 3: 11:44

Exactly. That discipline early on I'm really having to prioritize and choose. I mean really, you know, like when you read all these strategy books, well what does you know, especially like in start up, things like what is strategy? Ultimately strategy is about making choices and having to prioritize things and the rationale behind why you might choose this over that. Of course everyone wants to do everything, but when you have to choose and you have to explain why that that's what strategy is. And so when you put yourself in the constraint setting, okay, yeah, we want to do everything, but if we had to do one thing and if we have to get one thing right this quarter or this month, what, what is and how do we make sure that despite everything else that would be super cool the day we have to get that one thing done, let's make sure we get that done. And then that's been a growing process too, especially as you add more people to your team and you grow and you have know departments and offices in other cities. How do you make sure that everyone is actually aligned with that kind of that common objective or goal. But certainly I think in the early days just making sure that we're being fiscally responsible and thereby having to really make hard choices, you know, each and every month about what we're going to prioritize. That was a, I think an important part of our DNA as we grew up.

Speaker 2: 13:01

Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think those things are huge. So you mentioned there a little bit kind of team and kind of figuring out that team as it grows. That's one of the things I think is really hard for people when they first start out, they're either by themselves or them plus a, you know, a few friends that are partners or whatever else. But then you have to start adding people and things start to become more complicated usually. Especially if you've never hired before. So I'm curious from your perspective as you started to grow your own team, what was that like for you? What did you learn along the way and then maybe a few of the things about the kind of art. Are you guys located? Are you distributed, you know, how's your team setup now?

Speaker 3: 13:35

Because I think we've had some learnings along the way. Are we have a few different offices. Most of us are in New York, but you have a few people in San Francisco including our CEO, which is interesting. Even though most of us are here for about 100 people. So about 70 of us are here in New York. You to keep people in Seattle and then in a different countries around the world for some other kind of more complicated, you know, the video stuff, a video skills that we need. But um, I think in the early days we thought, Oh yeah, you know, with technology these days and the video conferencing, it's like you could just be wherever and I still believe that you can have people wherever, especially for some of those super specialized jobs where they just don't exist in every market, but there really is a lot of intangibles of just having people, people in the same office, in the same location for as amazing as technology is these days and connecting folks just to be, just to be able to get in a room together, look at you in a eye and, you know, have a in discussion debate. I'm just to spin around in your chair and, you know, just share some ideas. Uh, there's just a lot to be said. I think about actually being in one place. And so we started in a few different cities, four co founders. One was in Boston, two or New York, one was in San Francisco and we kind of started, you know, a few folks started migrating to New York. But our CEO actually still in San Francisco. So I think honestly if we were to change one thing, we, we, we try to all be in the same location. But I know other people have different philosophies on that. But for us I just, I just impact. It's so important for us that even the folks that are international and uh, the other, the other coast, we make it a priority to bring everyone together in person twice a year. We call it knee Oggie and yet 70 August Midyear animoto gathering in New York City nyc and every big brand. Everything like Mr Miyagi gets really cheesy and at the end of the Yeti NYC yet a year end togetherness in New York City. And we brand everything like yetis. It's also really cheesy. But those weeks are just amazing for us in terms of just having face to face time, getting, you know, getting aligned on strategy, getting aligned as teams, as Carmen has just as people. And just having that human connection time and so you know, so even if you aren't in one location, I think prioritizing that, that human, that, that face to face time a however you can, I, I think has been a huge part of our successes as a successful culture for those who aren't here in New York.

Speaker 2: 16:09

Well, you know, it's interesting because I think this topic is probably one of the one that's been most debated in the last decade in very heavily so on one side. The other one of the folks that really respect or like, um, it used to be 37 signals but base camp and they were very big on remote work and, and so I was like that for a long time. I run a digital agency, we've been in business for 20 years and the first 16 years we were totally distributed and ironically most of us actually were relatively local. Still. It was just, I just, I just liked working from home and starbucks and wherever else I could have a wifi connection. I didn't really want to central office, but after we've put the office in, I, I see all the things you're saying, which is there's just something about in person communication that we have yet to be able to duplicate with technology. I mean, you know, video conferencing. It's great slacks, great. You know, online project manager systems are great, but nothing really replaces that. Like in person human interaction. I think that's a really good point that you had of even if you have a remote team, having those at least by annual events where everybody's coming together, there's a lot of power that can come out of that. I think

Speaker 3: 17:19

something else that I had to mature, I think maybe in the early days because we're a product and and especially technology now, I think if you asked us, you know, seven or eight years ago, we'd say when everything can be reduced to a process. If you just improve the process, things will get better. But I think as we, as we mature say, but you know what, there is a, there is some, there's a human element to running a business. There is this importance of culture and we talk lot about, you know, the, you know, the potential of individuals and teams and departments and the company and you know, kind of by definition if, if an individual or team is not reaching their full potential than Animoto is not reaching its full potential. How do we make sure that everyone is reaching them. So we kind of nerd out on all these topics, but really there is, you know, you could have all the skill and all the talent, but if you're not bringing that, whatever that is, that, you know, some attitude, some color, you know, your, your, your inspiration or your motivation, but whatever that x factor as. I totally believe that you can have two teams all with the exact same processes. But if one team wants it more, they're going to beat out the other team just because they want it more. And so I think in part that magic of having people together creates some of that chemistry of. So it's not just a job, right? When you come to work and you feel like you're part of a team, a mission, a vision where there's some level of accountability and, you know, peer to peer, you know, uh, just that sense of trust and that you don't want to let your team down and you're, you're not just doing it for the paycheck and you're doing it for your colleagues and being around people that you respect in that kind of up your upper level. I can't tell you the number of times where we've hired, you know, new folks and have brought them to the team and I feel like just having them in the room makes everyone kind of up level the game just because they're, they're just that, you know, interesting or amazing or you know, uh, uh, you know, well, skilled with whatever it is they're doing. So yeah, it's still a learning process, but there really is. I think it's, it's under appreciating for as fast as technology is moving. It's, it's under appreciated. The human elements of, uh, the, you know, building a team and building a company.

Speaker 2: 19:36

Yeah, absolutely. I think all that's critical. I think a lot of companies are, a lot of people kind of fall off one cliff or the other. They either either over emphasized process or they overemphasize people don't have good process and I think you have to have. You have to have really a combination of both. I think that what you mentioned too would bring when you bring new team members into the room. Even the summary and we had a couple of interns in the office and I think when you have even like young new team members who don't necessarily have the skill sets that a lot of the older, more established team members have, there's just something about a new energy when when a new person comes in the room, I think people have inherent energy in it and it affects everybody else when you can actually be around them.

Speaker 3: 20:13

Yeah. One of the things that I remember probably affected me the most in the early days was this book I read, it was a. it's called delivering happiness by Tony Shay, who's, you know, for those who don't know, he's like the CEO of Zappos. Before Zappos, he actually had a startup and so in this book he talked about, um, I think the startup was called like Linkedin, linkedin exchange, and they sold it to Microsoft for like$280, million dollars and after like three years and you're like, wow, that's like the dream, right to start off running. And he talked about in the book how he literally hated every single day and going into it, in fact he hated it so much that he would, he would just hit the snooze button over and over and over because it just did not even want to get out of bed and you're and, and to me, I just could not even understand that and I'm like, wait, but dude, this is your company, so if you don't like it, change it, change it. But I think what he was implying is that at some point the accompany quickly takes on a life of a life of its own. And he's talking about the importance of culture and seeding those important kind of values and principles are fun. But he basically, the reason he hated it, he just hired a bunch of smart people, but people, he did not respect, we did not trust a who just, it was a very toxic and very political atmosphere and he just hated it. And I was like, wow. And it's, even though you're the founder of the company, you feel like you can't even do anything about it. Um, and so that, that story really stuck with me because I'm like, man, for how many hours, especially in those early days where it felt like 24 slash seven that we're putting into this thing. How much, you know, how sad is it that you're basically spending, you know, practically your whole lifetime and get this thing off the ground and to hate it. So we're like, we're not, you know, I have no idea where animal is going to go and that what I was talking about the early days, but we're going to make sure that we at least like it here. And a big part of that is hiring the right people and people that you know, that you can depend on, that you respect, that uh, you know, that you can, that you find dependable and it's just that, that, that fit your culture. And that too has been a learning process about what exactly our culture is. But you know, you can't take those things for granted.

Speaker 2: 22:25

So I think you had some really important points there. One of them hiring for culture. That's hard thing to do though sometimes in a. I'm curious, especially when you think about where I think about you going from four people to 100, there's a very big difference in a company and how they have to operate and how they bring on people. So what was hiring like in the early days versus what it's like now and what have you learned along the way? Cause I think that's a really hard subject for a lot of people.

Speaker 3: 22:53

Yeah. I'll say I'll be the first one who admit still, uh, uh, something that we're growing into and learning about. But I think especially in the past few years, we've learned a lot and gotten a lot more right know, I think in the early days, and this is not uncommon at finalist companies, you just want to know that someone has the skills and the experience to get done whatever you want to get done and it doesn't matter and it's like the first person you see has that experience. You're like, let's hire that person. But it's amazing the, the spectrum of different types of cultures that you just think like, this company is just people getting stuff done, right? But there's an amazing range of cultural cultures and personalities and values and principles that companies operate under and it can really cause a lot of, um, not just friction, but I'd say unnecessary wasted energy when you don't have kind of like the right people. So really I think for, and every company is different. Uh, it was for as long as we've been around, I'd say we've only really had that clarity in the last couple of years. And that's actually something else I wish we spent more time on really getting clear in our heads early on. But what happened was a friend of mine here in New York, uh, this woman, Sarah, who runs this other, a great company, um, she, she kind of called me in a frantic one day and she was like, can I have lunch with you? And so we met Metro lunch and she was like, all right, she took out her notepad, um, and she, she was okay. So everyone knows animal has a great culture and things here are just really bad. People are, people are quitting and people are having all sorts of like, you know, um, clashes and headbutting and there's lots of politics, like what, what, so what do I need to do to create a great culture? And she literally was like, they're ready to write down there. And I, and at first I had all the confidence in the world because I know we have a great culture. And as I started to talk, I actually realized I actually had no idea what I was talking about because it's not actually any one thing. It's not like, Oh, you do these get togethers where you're doing these meetings where you have your fight or whatever. Like it's none of those things. It's actually layers deeper than that. And it, and I felt like a complete failure after that lunch because all the things that I told her to do, I think we're just completely superficial. And then it really kind of set off this whole initiative here where we got a team of people together to really work on articulating, you know, not just what our culture is, but what our values, what's important to us and the people here and, and, and then to make that actually practical or actionable is, um, you know, you read about you have to be willing to hire and fire by buyer value. So once we had our values identified, um, you know, what, uh, what, how do we actually apply that into our interview process and how do we make sure that we are actually finding the right folks? So for us, we kinda came up with our own values, we call them like humble to then foster city and verification. But uh, you know, every company I think has, has their own values that they really need to. It sounds cheesy and foofy, but it really does have a lot of practical applications once you, once you've identified them. And so I feel like that man, if we had that earlier on, there would be a whole lot of time and energy that we would have saved because we certainly went through some chapters, have a people that probably should not have been here.

Speaker 2: 26:20

Um, you know, I think that's really important. I always kind of avoided the whole mission vision and values kinds of stuff or just values in general because I always felt like it was like a real corporate he kind of thing and I didn't want to be like that, you know, totally, totally land. And so I just avoided it and that was a huge mistake for me in the early years to have not just defining what those things are and what matters and, and, and, and, and even like real core values of, of what we are now, but aspirational values of where we want to go. One of my favorite authors is a guy named Pat Lencioni and he has a book that he has a bunch of really good books, but one of them is the ideal team player. No one's five dysfunctions of a team and his new one is called the advantage and he talks about organizational health a lot and that stuff to me is just, it's so good and it applies whether you're a team of two or three people or your team of hundreds of people. I think having those things defined. Uh, I just wish I had done it earlier too.

Speaker 3: 27:18

The advantage is literally one of our bibles here. We make everyone read it and we've kind of embraced that maybe for the last three years. So it has made such a difference. I highly recommend that they managed to anyone out there.

Speaker 2: 27:33

Yeah, it's so good. And I got to meet him at a conference. I'm not that long ago, a year ago, and he's just the real deal. I don't know if you've ever seen him speak in person, but he is just a, just an awesome guy and he just really cares about people and he wants to help make companies better and, and I really believed that and that's been really cool. Absolutely. I'd like to shift gears just a little bit because we're running out of time. I could feel like I could talk all day, but there's a few things I want to hit on for sure. One of them is kind of shifting gears back away from the team now while still related to the team, but uh, talking about the application itself and in specifically around differentiation, I think that being able to differentiate yourself in business, uh, from other people is really important. And for some people it's just who they are. And some people it's actually functions and features and toolsets and some. There's all kinds of different things that differentiate people. But you're in a market that's interesting because when you first started out, there probably were very few video tools at all and now we were in a market where things are constantly changing and evolving as you've already said. So how have you kind of kept up with that and then how do you differentiate yourself in a way that makes you kind of still be able to stand out in the market and somebody go, Yep, this is something I'm going to pay for.

Speaker 3: 28:45

Great. Early on, you're absolutely right. For the first several years we had no competition, which was actually a blessing and a curse. You know, what happened in those early days is, like I said, we had a little bit of everyone using us. And while at first glance seem really exciting. I mean we had, you know, photographer, it's marketers. We had churches, nonprofits, moms, dads, travelers, you know, really, really tours. We had literally, it felt like a little bit of everyone using us and we're like, this is amazing. Um, but between that and having no real competition, we were never really forced to actually define what is our focus. And what is our, what is our, where do we believe, what we believe is the market opportunity for us. And, and fast forward, you know, basically like five years from those early days is we realized that we were being pulled in so many different directions and uh, because, you know, while it was great that everyone to use Animoto, they all kind of want slightly different things and our technology, our product, everything kind of became like a patchwork quilt of a, like a Frankenstein product. And so not only did that start making the product less than, you know, perfect for anyone, but internally it was really hard to run a ship where everyone's kind of being pulled in different directions. So we kinda had a big wakeup call at, at, at some point where we said, listen, uh, and again this probably comes from some of the stuff like reading, you know, the advantage of stuff, but it's like if we had to be best in the world at one thing, what would that be? You know, instead of being kind of good at a lot of things, what do we really want to stand for? If we want to be best in the world at one thing, what would that be in? So that. So we had to really say pick a market for us that's a right now it's a small businesses who need, who need video and uh, and you know, define just the whole business model around that and then getting all 100 people in our company perfectly aligned on that so that we're having maximum impact towards one area versus trying to serve 20, you know, 20 different customer segments. So that I think was all important because without really understanding your focused or market arbitrage opportunity to who you want to invest in the world at, at serving, then then there's, you don't know who your competition is, you don't know your customer, you don't know how you're going to be differentiated. So that was all foundational. Once we really established, you know, where we believe the market opportunity is, what we can invest in the world app, then everything else just fell into place. It was really clear who the competition was, really emerging competitors were, and then strategy just becomes suddenly becomes not just what you're going to do and what are you going to prioritize, but inherent to any strategy is how are you going to win, which means, you know, like how are you going to differentiate or do something differently from the, uh, from know the others we're always talking about like, well, you know, like in football, you can't just have a strategy in a vacuum with one team. Like, you know, if everyone can do the same strategy, it's not really a winning strategy. So what is it that you're, how are you different and what choices are you making that are different? Um, so for us, uh, you know, we really believe we've kind of adopted this paradigm of a, we call it a builder versus, you know, editors. Um, we saw this happen with websites where back in the day, uh, you know, you have, you had to either know, uh, you know, html editors or something complex. Like you had to shell out a, you know, if you're a business, you have to pay 10,$15,000 to hire some marketing shop or some creative place to make a website for you. But fast forward to today, you know, a, it's like if you don't have a website, you're probably not really a business and be anyone with no experience could make a can make it a professional beautiful websites or these drag and drop tools like squarespace and wix and stuff. And so we just believe that that paradigm, uh, would, would also apply to video and we wanted to be the leaders of that. So we kind of set out, we kind of set out to create a product that we thought would, you know, we had to imagine, what would it be like to disrupt animoto? What would that product, what would that company look like? We kind of had to like build that product and a company from within us to say like, what would that, that next generation video maker look like that then your builder. So we build this new product and it's. And it's basically like, based on building blocks, it's drag and drop, there's no way to create a sales video. And on top of that you can select from a number of different, you know, start our templates that we call storyboards and we've literally been living, breathing, sleeping video for the past 10 years. So we took all that expertise and all that study of thousands of videos of what works, what doesn't work, and put all that wisdom into these, you know, different storyboard templates. So you can just, you can pick a template, you can drag and drop, you can replace your content and then you can add your logo, change colors, fonts. Um, so really, you know, I think our, our differentiation has been that level of ease and that level of professionalism. Taking all our, uh, experience with video, not just with Animoto, but you know, in our past experiences with TV and film and building in that level of professionalism. So it's just like you don't have to add any experience and there's no, we kind of think of it like a toy there. There's no way to have a failed experience. You just drag and drop, move around building blocks, and it has that flexibility that businesses need to make sure that their brand, their videos are on brand that they can put in whatever they want, whether that's video clips or you know, or photos or images or stock photos or whatever music and they can choose colors and fonts and make things as long or as short as they want. So that balance of, you know, making it super simple but perfectly customizable to your brand. Um, that's, that's kind of the balance that we've been working on and uh, that level of focus for us and kind of clarity on differentiation is at this point now what's, what's making all the difference because now it's super clear that, yeah, we're in a hot market and you know, unlike the early days where it was like, there was, it was like crickets were like, where's everyone now? It's like, oh, everyone knows it's a hot space and is trying to do video related stuff.

Speaker 2: 34:45

So a couple things that stood out to me there that are really interesting. One is, you kind of talked about this, you basically said at one point there were just trying to beat ourselves. I mean you were kind of looking at your own product and going, hey, what, what product would disrupt this? Let's build that. And I love that approach and methodology because I think, I mean you got to be aware of what the market's doing. You got to be aware of what other people are doing. But I think one mistake some business owners make is they just get so obsessed with what their competition is doing that they don't even know what they're doing. And, and I always tell people, I'm like, look, growing a business over a long period of time for me has been easy because I just look at the month before and say, how can we be better than that? Not Look at my neighbor. Like if they're doing great things, good for them, like great. There's, there's plenty of fish in the sea, you know, like I can't do everything for everybody. And so I wanted the people to be successful, to, oh, I got to do is be better than I was last year, be better than I was the year before. And I love that methodology of, you know, how do we beat ourselves, how do we just do better than we've been doing. And I think if you can do that at a consistent pace and you can grow over time, you're not indestructible by any means. Nobody is, nobody is too big to fail. But it does create a solid foundation that's really important. And after you're out there listening right now and you're thinking about video as a whole and you're not using video for your business, I mean, I run a marketing agency and I can tell you, we don't have time to go through all the stats of why video's important. But, uh, Jason or I, either one could give you a long list of crazy video stats and how they can just impact your website, your landing pages, your social media. Everything just has a, so, so much higher conversions, interactions, engagement, uh, with good video. But the be able to create good video can be hard and using a tool like this, uh, like Animoto is, is huge for a lot of business owners for maybe you've got a, you know, somebody who's new in the office and they're not a pro video person, but they can use a tool like this and I definitely encourage you if you have to listen to go check it out.

Speaker 3: 36:40

And then the punchline of all of those studies and stats and all of those are two. There's so many stats and studies these days, but it's really just because video has kind of emerged as the most compelling and effective way to communicate what's important. And we as businesses and marketers where we have to learn as if this is how people prefer to consume their content, then we need to start learning to, you know, we need to start learning how to deliver that content. And that message and that information in ways that people prefer. Doesn't mean it's replacing everything else. But it's a way to really amplify everything else that you're doing.

Speaker 2: 37:13

Yup. Absolutely. We're going to shift into the final session near because we're running out of time and uh, like I said, I think we could talk all day, but there's one section I never want to miss and that is kind of this, I hate the term, but kind of a work life balance. I like to call it a blender. Some days you got to throw in a little bit more spinach and Sundays you knew a little bit more fruit. Um, how has that changed for you over time? I know you have two young children now, so that's probably different than in the early days. And so what is, what does that work life balance even mean to you and how, how has your life changed over time to adjust to it, to make your life a life that you're happy to live?

Speaker 3: 37:48

In the early days it literally was like, it felt like 24 slash seven where we were just. I mean, we'd have like these checks where we just take a nap, but before we take a nap under, under our desks, a shot of espresso because we knew it take 20 minutes to kick in. So we've taken that on our desk, taking a shot and then right when we wake up the caffeine would kick in and be ready to roll and we're just like, I don't even know how we kind of a meeting some of those early days, but we're just super weird. It just felt like life or death, man, we got to make it happen. So now that we think about, well now we're a company of 100 people and we're kind of build something for the long haul that, that sense of balance and it's personal. Sustainability is super important, right? Because you want to be able to bring, bring 100 percent to everything that you're doing every day here. But you know, for me, the way I think about it is like, it's Kinda like for me it's like a three legged stool where one is work, one is family and one is just my personal wellbeing. Right now that I'm kind of in my post, I'm not, everything is necessarily is as easy as it was when I was in my class. So, so, and, and it's the stool analogy is like if any one of those is kind of, um, you know, not stable, then the whole thing can come crashing down and they, all, they all actually really affect each other. So really being mindful about making sure that with my, by the time I get home for work that I figured out how to decompress, you know, on my subway ride or whatever, you know, and that's usually what podcasts or books I don't like. Um, so that when I get home I'm present for my wife and my kids and I can give them 100 percent. Um, so when, you know, that feels like a solid leg of the stool for me personally, just making sure that, you know, I'm, I'm just taking care of myself both mentally and physically, especially in post Fort Hood. Um, and just making sure that I can operate at a hundred percent. And then when I get to work, making sure that I'm operating a hundred and of course there are times where we, you know, set ambitious deadline, then we have to crank and we really push ourselves. But just making sure that over the last, over the long haul that that balance is there and that you're able to really kind of, um, whatever those legs of the stool are in your life, whether you know, whether it's two legs or four legs or whatever it is, making sure that they're all stable because they, all, they all affect each other. So that's, that's how I think of it. And I'm just making sure I'm really present for, you know, each, each parts of those a long lives. So

Speaker 2: 40:12

yeah, I think that's really good. I think that the kind of, the thing that stands out to me, what you said there is really about intentionality and, and knowing where you're at in your season of life. You know, there might be seasons where you could take a shot of espresso, taken up under your desk and then just keep hustling through it. And I've had seasons like that too, but now I've got five little ones and I, I'm home for dinner most nights. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's crazy. And so like their seasons, you know, and I just think I love my work. I love what I get to do. I think you, it sounds like you do too. And um, and that's, that's awesome. But we've all got to find spots where we go, okay, this week it's 100 percent business and zero percent anything else next week, maybe it's 60, 40 next week, maybe I'm not doing any work, you know. And I think that figuring that out, every person has to be intentional about figuring out for themselves because just because you're doing things one way and I'm doing another doesn't mean that's going to work for somebody else. And I always tell people, ignore the system, but have a system. You got to have something that works for you and you got to know what that is and it might be different than anybody else. And that's okay.

Speaker 3: 41:15

Absolutely. One hundred percent agree.

Speaker 2: 41:17

Uh, two last questions. The first is around your own personal growth. You mentioned podcasts and books and the second will be kind of any parting thoughts that you have. So first one, uh, any, uh, you mentioned they're on your ride home, on the subway, this particular podcast, books, anything that stands out that you'd been reading or listening to that had a lot of value that you think might help other people?

Speaker 3: 41:36

Well, maybe just a bit different. What I've realized recently is I had a chance to chat with a bunch of colleagues and you know, in the industry and stuff and everyone has an amazing startup stories, either good or bad. Whatever I started to realize is maybe not dissimilar to that Tony Shade book thing I was talking about, but I've actually started really. I learn. I've been learning a lot more from folks that have had the rough ride, the rough, you know, ups and downs in their business or their lives and not the ones that just have a straight shot to success. And oftentimes those are the ones that seem like they have all the answers. But what I realized is it's chatting with the folks that had. I went through big challenges that really had to dig deep and learn about something I'm either personal or in terms of their company or in terms of their family or whatever it is, those that have gone through the hard time and often have a lot more wisdom. And so I've, uh, I've really embraced, uh, you know, finding those folks that I'm not have gone through a interesting chapters of their life and their career and their business and really listen with open ears. So that's been an amazing source I think of just growth for me is hearing other people's stories good and bad and really focused on learning.

Speaker 2: 42:51

I love that. And then last thing, if you were to be, you know, having an audience you're talking to right now who are newer business owners or people that have been in business for a handful of years and they're wondering, Gosh, how can I get to that decade mark? How can I get past that and still be happy with the work that I do? Any parting advice that you'd kind of give folks that's been helpful for you over the years?

Speaker 3: 43:11

Yeah, I think the, some of the things I said about culture and hiring the right people, but various specifically, I think for us, what I really zeroed in on is surrounding yourself, not just with people that are competent with their school, whatever, but the kind of a sense of reliability, dependability, trustworthiness. Especially if you're kind of start something new. Making sure that whoever you choose as your business partners or your co founders, they are people that you, that you not only trust, but that you really believe are dependable, reliable, or people that work and that you yourself are also dependable and reliable because when you're trying to get something off the ground and you're trying to make it last, the most important thing is that stuff is getting done. That you're not just talking the talk, but that you're surrounded with people that are willing to talk the talk but then walk the walk and you know, that things don't have to get said more than once. You know that if they say they're going to do something, you know they're going to get it done. Um, so for me that has really surfaced as if I was to recommend one thing is just that value, that principle of dependability and reliability. So be that person who is a person of your word and surround yourself with those types of people.

Speaker 2: 44:23

Jason, thanks so much for being on the show today.

Speaker 3: 44:25

Thanks Jay. I really patient and congrats on the success of the show. It's we haven't been a real privilege to be a part of this.

Speaker 2: 44:30

Appreciate it. You know, this is the kind

Speaker 1: 44:32

of episode that I love at somebody who has been in business for a long time. Really respect Jason and the work that his team is doing. If you're not doing video for your company, even if you are and you're not doing it great and you want a better tool or you just want to try it out, I'd encourage you to go check out their application. Animoto.com. It's a n I, m o t o.com. A really an excellent tool. I've used it myself like I've used it for actually years, uh, in the past. And um, I've not tried some of his newer business tool, so I'm actually gonna go in there this afternoon and try that out ourselves for our team. I'd encourage you to do the same. Jason, thanks so much again for being on building a business that lasts. I hope this episode has given you some ideas or inspiration that will help you grow your business. If you found it helpful and you know somebody else who might benefit from it as well, I would greatly appreciate it if you would take the time to share this with them, maybe on facebook or twitter or Linkedin, or even shoot an email over to a friend out with a link to this podcast in it. And if you haven't already, make sure you sign up for our email list@buildingabusinessthatlasts.com.